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Hi all,
I'm trying to put a designation against Admontia grandicornis. The NBN gateway appears to show 8 records which technically speaking means that A. grandicornis is RDB.
But on the most recent JNCC Taxon designation master list, this species is not mentioned at all (and this master list includes Nationally Scarce too!). The JNCC master list takes information from Falks Review.
I've been on the Tachinid Recording Scheme website too and that mentions status as "uncertain".
It's obviously a rare fly but does anyone know any recent designation for this species?
Any help would be gratefully received.
Thanks,
Rachel
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It's useful to understand when using NBN Gateway, that the Gateway only holds records which have been submitted to it, so inevitably there are only likely to be a small proportion of all records for a species actually held on NBN - particularly for most Diptera. That said, the Tachinid Recording Scheme is actively collecting records and submitting them to NBN, but even so, there will be numerous records not held by the scheme either. If you want to get an idea of just how incomplete NBN maps can be, type Musca domestica (house fly) in and view the map. You will see that there are very few records held by NBN, but we know it is likely to occur in most of the UK and is one of most widespread of flies.
Where no status for a species is given in a JNCC review then assume that it has no national status. In the case of something like Admontia grandicornis it is probably a an uncommon species, but unlikely to be nationally scarce or rare. Chris and Matt (Tachinid Recording Scheme) may be able to comment more definitively.
Last edited by conopid (2011-10-28 19:08:26)
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Thanks Nigel for your response. I do take the NBN with a pinch of salt. All LRC databases are the same because recorders either can't or don't send in records. It just frustrates me that I can't put a designation on what looks like a rare fly that will make the site owner understand more about its importance. There haven't been records for the species for a number of years according to the Tachinid Recording Scheme website and the NBN and that is all I have to go off. It doesn't look like it's ever been found anywhere near to where I recorded it from either.
Oh well, I'll do my best.
Rachel
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Hi Rachel,
In the unpublished draft for the Scarce & Threatened Flies (Calyptrata) of Great Britain (Falk, Pont & Chandler, 2010, JNCC), it is provisionally graded as Data Deficient using the latest IUCN criteria (different to the grades in my original reviews). That means it is is felt to fall within the old concept of Red Data Book (Nationally Threatened), but nobody is quite confident enough to give it a grade - probably because the records are sparse but surprisinlgy widespread. I'd be delighted to find it! Where did you find it?
Hope this helps,
Falky
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Hi Falky,
Hope you are well. I could tell you the grid ref but then I'd have to kill you and pin you!! I can't release the data yet for various reasons - very sorry.
Your information is extremely useful - thank you. Glad to hear that it is thought to fall into the old RDB category albeit without a current grade. I'll flag it up as data deficient but rarely recorded. I'll re-survey for it this year.
I find it strange that it is not designated at all (RDB, NS, Local) when all we have to go off is a few scattered records. I understand that it could be under-recorded and probably is but as things stand at the moment, it looks like it has rarely been found over the years since it was first found and therefore looks rare to me! There probably are records for it under peoples beds on record cards, but I was hoping somebody on this forum might have found it recently.
I also believe it is dangerous to put designations on species that are not worthy of such (likewise local wildlife sites - I can, and have, argued over some in my county that are no longer worthy of designation) but at the same time, with no species designation, it can be difficult to convince non-Dipterists that this fly's habitat might be worth mitigating for.
I suppose this line of debate could rumble on forever. I'll go on fighting for the flies!
Thanks again for the information. Much appreciated.
Rachel
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Hi Rachel,
Yes you've spotted some of the many conundrums affecting invertebrate conservation and general nature conservation - not helped by the fact that many of our top invert' sites do not correspond with top botanical sites or clear-cut NVC categories. But it is getting better as more people record and research flies, and as invert conservation gains an increasing profile (Highgate Common, Staffs for e.g. was notified a SSSI a few years back on the basis of its rare bees and wasps and many 2nd tier wildlife sites are supported by invert assemblages).
But also bear in mind that rare flies can be tramps and vagrants, not necessarily breeding where the adults are found, and often mis-represented in site designation and management. Discovered this big time on the Sussex Downs recently where species like Stratiomys longicornis and Atylotus rusticus are regulalrly found, even though they are breeding in nearby coastal levels.
Cheers,
Falky
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